What started as two-bit protest has become a worldwide movement, the liberal media claim. Trouble is, no one really knows what it's all about and the protesters can't seem to tell us.
I continue to be puzzled by this "Occupy Wall Street" effort, which has since popped up in a handful of cities. What exactly is their point?
Oh, I know, the rich are getting richer and these guys aren't getting their share of the pie, right? Well maybe if each one of them got a life and did something positive they would have less time to protest.
They also need to take stock of their lives in America.
Compared to the rest of the world, the poorest Americans are probably still among the richest one percent in the world.
I can't take credit for this thought. It comes from my cousin, Susan, who told me the other day that she was thinking about how fortunate we all are as free Americans. She pointed out that she doesn't have to walk 10 miles to find clean drinking water. Nor, according to Susan, does she have to fear being gang-raped by soldiers in the perverted 21st century version of war carried out in some countries. She also said she doesn't have to worry about finding a way to get her children to the safety of a refugee camp.
Over the past two weeks, I've thought a lot about my conversation with Susan. And I've watched the no-so-articulate "occupiers" try to justify their tent cities. I listen to them complain how "the man" is tearing down their shanties because normal people can no longer tolerate the drumming, and the filth, and public urination and defecation, etc.
So, maybe it's time for the "occupiers" to take a step back and assess exactly what they possess compared to most of the world around them. I'm sure thousands of refugees around the world would love their tents, their blankets, their coats, their food,...even their drums.
How about the protesters and the unions, anarchists and left-wing splinter groups who them support band together and do something positive to help the real poor of this world.
The '60s are over.
Get real, stop feeling sorry for yourselves and make a difference in our world, not just a whole lot of excess noise.
Typical cookie cutter right wing rhetoric:
ReplyDelete“Well maybe if each one of them got a life and did something positive they would have less time to protest”.
“How about the protestors and the unions, anarchists and left-wing splinter groups who support them band together and do something positive to help the real poor of this world”.
But you forgot to include homosexuals, atheists, and Planned Parenthood!
“The 60’s are over. Get real, stop feeling sorry for yourselves and make a difference in our world, not just a lot of excess noise.”
Really?
So now one’s right to protest and to free speech ceased on December 31, 1969, and the country has been just peachy-keen ever since. And I suppose that the Civil Rights Act was just one of those little annoying by-products of “excess noise”.
You know, this type of extreme political discourse and discussion is exactly why the majority of Americans are disaffected and disgusted with our politicians and our government.
Also, it’s one thing to compare the United States to Third World, war torn, countries around the globe. Of course the least amongst us in this country are going to stack up better compared to the same in those countries. But has your cousin Susan ever lived or spent any amount of time in another developed country other than ours? Well, I have, and I can tell you that in countries such as those, university students can actually graduate with a quality education without racking up $100,000 worth of debt. People can go see a doctor whenever they’re sick without having to file for bankruptcy or lose their home as a result. The wealthiest people actually pay (and they even don’t mind!) a higher tax rate so that the lesser among them can have a higher standard of living, and they’re infrastructure doesn’t fall into pieces. And the list goes on. If you’re going to compare apples, then at least compare them with other apples, and just because you’ve been fortunate and blessed in your life in this country, don’t besmirch others who have fallen on hard times and slipped through the system through no fault of their own. Each one of us is just one tragedy away from destitution or despair.
Who said they don't have the right to free speech? It would be nice if their speech was coherent and had a point however.
ReplyDeleteAnd, please, stop liberal lying about the wealthy not paying taxes in this country. It just not true, and deep down you know it.
Of course, if I'm conservative I must be homophobic. You talk about "cookie cutter rhetoric." Well, yours is obvious lifted from the college faculty handbook.
I challenge you to ilustrate one, positive, proactive point being spoused by the "occupiers."
If you can, you're doing a hell of a lot better than they are.
Worldwide the would be more like the 99.9%. The rich keep getting richer and the poor keep getting poorer. This protest is about corporate greed and policies that favor the rich. Of course the rich pay taxes, no one is saying they don't, but with all the loopholes, deductions and write offs that they are allowed, they pay a smaller percentage of their income in the end than most people. Of course on the surface they don't when you simply look at the base tax rate, but there is much more to it.
ReplyDeleteIf it continues the way it has for several more years, we are going to be living in what may as well be two different countries due to the great inequities we are seeing. I don't think most are asking for a complete handout, simply for a much simpler and more fair system.
I am all for letting the rich and corporation keeping their current tax rates, but for every loophole, deduction and write off their allowed, I feel 80-85% of the value should be required to put into job creation.
Truthfully i think a lot of people need wake up and smell the cherries. Its the government that's ruining this countrie. The more money the have in their pocket the happier they are, so if u have all these rich people they not going to complain because the taxes they get on them rich people is a lot. In this so called countrie of the united states is going to shit...
ReplyDeleteMassenasuperblog...are you serious? Documnets upon documents show how very little the rich are paying. Statements such as yours are based in centric fear- fear because you think your personal wallet will be affected, which chances are will not. With the rate of inflation, I highly doubt your income will count as the "rich". Those who can afford to pay should and do want to pay. Case and point- Warren Buffett who admittedly pays in less taxes than his secretary.
ReplyDeleteYour callous and superficial comments, particularly here in the North Country where the unemployment rate is second to that of the inner city, are without merit and are unsubstantiated by realty.
I suggest you use your position to create this environment you speak of with Massena's rich investing 80-85% in job creation... although I sincerely predict that your response to this would be "I can't".... and to counter this I would say to you, put your money where your mouth is- run for this as your platform, and see how your obnoxious logic pairs up with the so called 99% and 1%. Both will drop you like a bad habit. And to your cousin Sue- basic needs are not at all being met by many here in the US. Why do you think that throughout the US the homeless are on the streets? Can't find a refugee shelter- what about the thousands of shelters that are being closed due to lack of funding right now? Please be responsible with your comments.
Wow, the Supervisor of Massena, Mr. Gray, admits that he was told by his cousin, Susan, how great America is and how fortunate we all are to live here! And that he "can't take credit for the thought." Imagine that!
ReplyDeleteImagine that voters, if we are to believe Mr. Gray, he never realized the greatness of America or our good fortune to having been born here until he was informed about this by Susan!
Little wonder then that Mr. Gray (who wants to go nuclear in our great North Country), has no understanding of the Occupy Wallstreet movement or the uprisings that are taking place against crony capitalism (not honest capitalism)around the globe. Here in America we are witnessing the disintegration and destruction of the great, and once fortunate, American middle-class being carried out by some of the wealthiest American Oligarchs with no loyalty to America's citizenry or American government.
And the middle-class is finally saying, ENOUGH! to these modern-day robber barons, the "Too Big To Fail, Too Rich To Jail" crowd of Wall Street, that for the past 25 years have been exponentially growing ever more wealthier while the average person on Main Street grows ever more poorer.
Homeless, jobless, hungry people by the hundreds of thousands in America still have faith that this country is great and that we are fortunate for living in a nation where our laws allow us to peaceably assemble to petition our government with our greivances.
Mr. Gray - great job of channeling FOX and Friends, and Rush. You will never, ever be one of the top .01% though they do appreciate suckers like you who fight on their behalf. There is a cartoon showing a rat holding a sign saying, "Support The Fat Cats!" The irony seems to be lost on the rat with the sign.
"I've watched the no-so-articulate "occupiers" try to justify their tent cities."
ReplyDeleteReally? Well I have watched and listened to the leaders of 'Conservatives" in this country tell us why they should be the next President of this country.
Each week a new clown jumps out of the barrel to tell us things that make you laugh, if only they were not the "best and brightest" of the conservative movement.
One just said she would close our Embassy in Iran ( We have not had one there since 1979 and she is on the foreign Intelligence committee), one said he was paid millions of dollars to give history lessons to Fannie Mae not to lobby the group that removed him for unethical behavior, another wants everyone over 21 to vote for him ( shhh! don't tell him the voting age is 18).
Then there is the former leader of the movement, he is re assessing and trying to figure out why all these women are making up all these stories about a guy who was just trying to help them.
Then there is the back room favorite. The guy who has been running for President all his life. son of a former Governor who ran for President, born on third base and thinks he hit a triple who never got his hands dirty in his life and wants to represent us all. You know the man who has been right on every issue because he has taken both sides of every issue he ever saw.
I have NO idea what conservatives stand for. Regan, as President, doubled the size of Government and tripled the deficit.
Bush! Really? two unfunded wars, bankrupted the treasury and....
I think everyone has a good idea what the protestors want. A level playing field. Simple as that.
And you know it too. You are not a stupid man.
Gray reviewed a comment I made about him, and apparently he is too cowardly to post it. Thankfully, there are other media outlets to let the actions of this censorious "chickenhawk" be known.
ReplyDeleteNo one here has yet to address the point of my post: Even the protesters are "rich" by world standards. Rail all you want against the "rich" and fiscal conservatism, we as a country cannot sustain what we are doing and class warfare won't fix the problem. Neither will campaigning 365 days a year.
ReplyDeleteKudos to Mr. Gray for running my comment afterall. My apology for suggesting a lack of backbone on his part.
ReplyDeleteSo our nation's poor have it better than the poor folks in other places? The poor in NYS have it better than the poor in Arizona?
That could be said about each nation around the globe. Is that the standard we will use to judge poverty in these United States? Afterall, there are poor people in Mexico but most have it better than the poor people in Calcutta, Bangladesh, or the Congo.
So Mexicans living in poverty should just shut up about it because it could always be worse?!? And that train of logic applies to poverty stricken Americans also? It could alway get worse?
Supervisor Gray I was the first comment you decided to post in response, so, while I think you're fundamentally misguided and incorrect in everything you state, at least you're not a coward, so, I appreciate that. For the record, I am an Independent, not a liberal or a conservative. I don't subscribe to "group think" like many in your party and your opposing one do. I am actually capable of independent critical thinking. I think the two-party system in this country is our biggest problem and threat as a nation. It's like the old joke: What's the difference between a Republican and a Democrat?
ReplyDeleteAnswer: Republicans love their country. They just hate about half of the people in it.
Democrats love their country, they just wish it was somehow a different country. To answer your question as to what some of the demands of the occupiers are, well here are 9 to start with:
1. Eradicate the Bush tax cuts for the rich and institute new taxes on the wealthiest Americans and on corporations, including a tax on all trading on Wall Street (where they currently pay 0%).
2. Assess a penalty tax on any corporation that moves American jobs to other countries when that company is already making profits in America.
3. Require that all Americans pay the same Social Security tax on all of their earnings (normally, the middle class pays about 6% of their income to Social Security; someone making $1 million a year pays about 0.6% (or 90% less than the average person). This law would simply make the rich pay what everyone else pays.
4. Reinstate the Glass-Steagall Act, placing serious regulations on how business is conducted by Wall Street and the banks.
5. Investigate the Crash of 2008, and bring to justice those who committed any crimes.
6. Reorder our nation's spending priorities (including the ending of all foreign wars and their cost of over $2 billion a week).
7. Join the rest of the free world and create a single-payer, free and universal health care system that covers all Americans all of the time.
8. Immediately reduce carbon emissions that are destroying the planet and discover ways to live without the oil that will be depleted and gone by the end of this century.
9. Require corporations with more than 10,000 employees to restructure their board of directors so that 50% of its members are elected by the company’s workers. We can never have a real democracy as long as most people have no say in what happens at the place they spend most of their time: their job. (For any U.S. businesspeople freaking out at this idea because you think workers can't run a successful company: Germany has a law like this and it has helped to make Germany the world’s leading manufacturing exporter.)
I will address your point (and i actually would say i am "against" the OWS group. I understand the issues they are protesting, i just don't understand what they expect to happen. One of the first things they teach young engineers is that before you present your problem, have a proposed solution. I have never heard what they think the solution is).
ReplyDeleteBut to your point, are you really saying that US citizens (OWS'ers or otherwise) that are losing their homes, and job, etc should stop and reflect, and say "even though my family is living in a shelter, i should consider myself lucky that i don't live in Rwanda"???
What kind of logic is that? Of course there are places in the world that are worse. We are the US, we are supposed to set the standard, at least that is what we have always been taught. Your logic is akin to telling kids in a sweat shop that get payed 35cents an hour, "what are you complaining about, some slaves don't get paid at all".
Does the fact that someone people have it worse make "your" situation better???
(On a side note, how do the people of Massena put up with the way you speak to people on this blog? You are an elected official, conduct yourself with a little bit of tact and professionalism)
It is only class warfare because the "99%" is just starting to fight back.
ReplyDeleteWith all the power and money and influence only on the "1%" the last 30 years it was not warfare, it was class annihilation.
Pay attention to Wisconsin and Ohio and the recent happenings. The right has gone too far, people are realizing that, and are fighting back. A correction is in order to find a center.
It was "class warfare" that created the Unions in this country that created the middle class that built and supported communities like Massena. Do your history, check it out. We had a choice, Unions or socialism or communism in the 1930s.
You will notice as the number of Union families in this country has diminished, so has the middle class shrunk so that now it is nearly extinct.
There is nothing wrong with a working person making a decent wage with decent benefits and some safety in the workplace. Why do you and so many on the right oppose that concept?
Cooper Tire, just made One Billion and a half sales, record profits and paid their CEO 2.4 million. They just shut out their workers and want give backs, as does a large sugar co with record profits in MInn and of course Whirlpool in Ohio. All record profits and all asking for workers to make give backs and Whirlpool shipping thousands of jobs oversees.
It is called GREED. And I am glad some are fighting back and I am glad the next election will be decided on that choice.
I assume your 365 day election campaigning a year is a reference to McConnell, the GOP Senate leader who stated the only goal of the Republicans was to see that Obama did not get re elected within days of the new Presidents inauguration. Not doing the good of the people, but electing another conservative as President.
On that we agree. Shame on the GOP.
"December 2, 2011 11:56 AM" - I posted my comment that "i didnt know what they expect to happen" before your post hit the site.
ReplyDeleteWhile i think that some of your 9 items are unfeasible, and some are juct completely false "discover ways to live without the oil that will be depleted and gone by the end of this century" - where did you come up with that???) at the same time, at least you coherently stated something that was trying to be achieved. i stand corrected.
Frank, are you going to tell me all of the occupiers are poor? Really? I find that hard to swallow.
ReplyDeleteThey may have big college debt (as I did 25 years ago), and they may be out of work (as I have been in the past and as millions of others are currently), but that doesn't mean they are destitute.
Like any protest, you get a whole bunch of people who are ticked off in general and just watch to bitch about something.
And Anon. 11:56, this is the first time I've seen an occupiers' agenda laid out. I could waste a whole bunch of time rebutting most of this stuff (I reject the greenhouse gas claim for one thing, but that's an argument for anotehr day), but I'll just leave your articulate explanation to stand on its own. The occupiers would be smart to hire a guy like you as their spokesman.
Anon. 1:16, should I just sit back and let people say what they want about me and my blog? I don't think I've been rude to anyone and I don't spend a penny of taxpayers' dollars on my blog.
ReplyDeleteI don't think it demonstrates a lack of "tact and professionalism" to express an opinion.
Isn't that what America is all about?
And ultimately if people don't like what I print here, they can easily just visit a different blog or some other site. The internet is filled with them.
Massenasuperblog - please don't put words in my mouth by falsely quoting me. I never said that all of or any of, the OWS folks are poor people. And if your argument is that the OWS is made up primarily of rich people - your point is? The logic escapes me.
ReplyDeleteAs a matter of fact, the OWS movement is made up of a diverse cross section of lower-middle class to upper middle class folks, a high percentage of educated people, a high percentage of people who were recently part of the great American middle-class work force and small mom and pop operations, but who are now out of work, home and patience as they've seen their middle-class jobs shipped abroad, for the greater profits of shareholders, investors and money changers here in America.
Uusually, Mr. Super, the people hitting the streets were once part of the middle-class, but now find themselves in the grinding cycle of poverty.
At 8:32 pm on the 1st you mocked the OWS movement and then issued a challenge to anyone to present to you just one coherent point. So, Anon at 11:56 am today, gave you nine of them.
Your Right-Wing looney-tooney response was predictable. We understand that you have a problem with science. You mock the forecasts of intense global warming. Though we are witnessing one of the nine warmest Autumns on record and glaciers and ice caps are melting at unprecedented rates around the globe you will stick with the flat-earthers and claim greenhouse gasses are a myth created by a cabal of 10,000 scientists around the world?
Nice job anon at 11:56 for precisely spelling out the reasonable, achievable and practical steps that we must take to restore America.
All you need to know:
ReplyDeleteThe wealthiest of us ( that 1%) does NOT create jobs. Making them wealthier will not create jobs.
ONLY a robust middle class can create jobs. The man/woman with a thousand times more wealth than the average worker does not buy a thousand cars and on and on.
Jobs are only created when there is consumer demand. Raise wages and put more money in the pocket of the average family ( $26,000 per year is the median in this Country - think about that for moment ) and the economy will grow and jobs will be created.
And there you have it. The rich are not job creators, never were, they are wealth creators. Totally different animal.
Good work by Mr. Gray in his choice of subject and his respectful responses.
I so wanted these occuppiers to be successful when they first started, but they have not really accomplished anything. As a group they are a reflection of our Congress - people who intended to go to Washington to make a difference but end up becoming part of the dysfuntion.
ReplyDeleteI support free speech, but what are they really saying?
I understand that there are a lot of issues that people are facing today - foreclosures, hunger, student debt, job loss, corporate greed, inaction of government. Pick a few of these issues, focus on them and act.
We are a county of same of the greatest civil achievements in the wold - American Revolution, Civil War, unionization, civil rights, voting rights, etc. Use the lessons of history from the brave people who organized and fought in these movements to move this country by developing specific action(s). The greatest harm that any person or entity can do to this country and world is to refuse to act in thought, word or deed.
Frank, I don't want to get off on a global warming tangent but I'm not looney for disagreeing with the theory. Global warming is an opinion I happen to disagree with.
ReplyDeleteHave the last few years (or even decades for argument's sake) been warmer?
Sure but we only have weather records for maybe two hundred years.
What does equal in geologic time? Less than a nano-second....
Sooooo, I'm assuming you(Massenasuperblog) are against the 2% tax cap since we all have it made in the good ole U S of A. No need to go beyond 2%, Right?
ReplyDeleteIn fact, the Massena Town Council, at my suggestion, overrode the 2% cap. We tried to fit under it but it was impossible. I'll let the Massena voters decide if we acted irresponsibly.
ReplyDeleteI also think it is hypocritical and ridiculous for Gov. Cuomo and both parties in the state Legislature to hold local governments and school districts to a higher standard than the Albany elite are willing to hold themselves to. When NYS officials and bureaucrats live within the 2% tax cap then, and only then, can they ask locals to do the same.
Thank you, Frank for your kind words and also for your own well-articulated rebuttals, and thanks again to Supervisor Gray for broaching this subject and allowing and posting the responses whom vehemently disagree with your POV. I meant to add a few more of the occupiers' demands other than the 9 I listed, but I ran out of available character spaces, so, I am adding those now for consideration:
ReplyDeletePass three constitutional amendments that will go a long way toward fixing the core problems we now have. These include:
a) A constitutional amendment that fixes our broken electoral system by 1) completely removing campaign contributions from the political process; 2) requiring all elections to be publicly financed; 3) moving election day to the weekend to increase voter turnout; 4) making all Americans registered voters at the moment of their birth; 5) banning computerized voting and requiring that all elections take place on paper ballots.
b) A constitutional amendment declaring that corporations are not people and do not have the constitutional rights of citizens. This amendment should also state that the interests of the general public and society must always come before the interests of corporations.
c) A constitutional amendment that will act as a "second bill of rights" as proposed by President Franklin D. Roosevelt: that every American has a human right to employment, to health care, to a free and full education, to breathe clean air, drink clean water and eat safe food, and to be cared for with dignity and respect in their old age.
Anon at 2:04pm, December 3rd - Nicely done. An enlightened civilized society is one in which the best abled, smartest and wealthiest among us, are glad and willing to help the less fortunate to become abled, educated and independent of the need for government aid.
ReplyDeleteIn ancient Japan it was customary to take the elderly, infirm, senile relatives and literally throw them off a cliff. President FDR had it right, Lincoln had it right - and I remain disappointed that our "Right" doesn't get it "right."
I give kudos and respect to the man behind Massenasuperblog for putting himself "out on a limb" with his thoughts.
Not sure if he expected this level of opposition to his thoughts, but as one who served a career in the military, I may not always agree with what the Super says, but I will defend with my life his right to say it.